Legislature(2013 - 2014)BUTROVICH 205
03/15/2013 03:30 PM Senate RESOURCES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HJR5 | |
| SB60 | |
| SB69 | |
| SB59 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | SB 59 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| = | HJR 5 | ||
| = | SB 60 | ||
| = | SB 69 | ||
SB 60-BOUNTY ON SEA OTTERS
3:36:19 PM
CHAIR GIESSEL announced SB 60 to be up for consideration, and
noted that public testimony would continue today.
3:37:06 PM
JAMES SULLIVAN, Southeast Alaska Conservation Council (SEACC),
Juneau, Alaska, said SEACC strongly supports the right of Alaska
Natives to hunt sea otters for subsistence purposes and for the
creating and selling of handicrafts and clothing as Section
101(b) of the Marine Mammal Protection Act (MMPA) allows. But SB
60, as written, conflicts with 109(a) of the MMPA that provides
that no state may enforce or attempt to enforce any state law or
regulation relating to the taking of any species of marine
mammal within the state unless the secretary has transferred
authority for the conservation and management of that species to
the state under Section 109(b)(1). SB 60 is impermissible
because the Secretary of the Interior has not granted the state
management authority under 109(b)(1) of the act.
Regardless of how the bill is currently written, he stated SEACC
believes that ecosystem-based management reliant on the best
available scientific information is the proper approach to
insure healthy and sustainable fisheries within the state of
Alaska. He said SEACC does not support any type of bounty
system, however written.
3:38:51 PM
ROSITA WORL, President, Sealaska Heritage Institute (SHI),
Juneau, Alaska, said she is also on the board of the Alaska
Federation of Natives and serves as the Chair of its Subsistence
Committee; she is also a Harvard trained anthropologist and has
done 30 years of research throughout Alaska and the Circumpolar
Arctic. So she has some knowledge of subsistence.
She introduced other members of the Institute who were all
wearing sea otter products and provided written testimony along
with a report on SHI's cultural and economic sustainability
through traditional arts that she would leave for them. It
provides an outline of their sea otter project and offers a
number of recommendations that could lessen their impacts on
commercial and subsistence resources.
MS. WORL said they appreciate the impacts from sea otters on the
commercial fisheries, and their own tribal members are advising
them of the impacts on subsistence resources. However, she was
concerned that this legislation was not the solution to the
reported impacts. It could ultimately, if it were found to be
legal and implemented, undermine their efforts to address the
impacts in a positive way and possibly threaten a sustainable
sea otter population.
She said from the onset that the harvest they are supporting
will be well within the presently known scientific potential of
a logical removal level from data provided by the Fish and
Wildlife Service and their harvests area are also initiated in
areas that are identified by the Alaska Division of Fish and
Game. In addition, they are governed by their own traditional
values: honoring and respecting the environment as they use the
resources, protecting the environment and the resources for
future generations, using traditional knowledge and
incorporating new or scientific knowledge into their practices.
Through the state of Alaska's support, she explained how SHI
expanded its sustainable arts program to include sea otter.
Basically, the project will support the harvest of 250 sea
otters annually over a three-year period and includes the
tanning of sea otter hides in an Alaskan tanner and the
instruction of skin sewing to 50 individuals. They believe that
this project can alleviate the impacts that are evident in their
region while at the same time providing revenues to individuals
in economically depressed communities who often have no other
alternative to gainful employment. It will also allow them to
revive ancient traditions that were near extinction as a result
of the decimation of the sea otter population under the Russian
occupation. She showed one of the hats that were just made in
one of their classes in Kake.
3:42:50 PM
LEE KADINGER, COO, Sealaska Heritage Institute (SHI), Juneau,
Alaska, said the "bounty bill" may not be the best vehicle and
that they believe there are other ways the state can help
support various programs like the sea otter project. One of the
issues they have been having is with the definition
"significantly altered;" for instance, some federal agents will
say his hat is not significantly altered, and the state's
resources could help them clarify that these items before them
are significantly altered and can enter the retail market. "Who
would start a business if you are always in fear that you would
be arrested for making a hat like this? And that's exactly what
the situation is," he said.
The $28,000 fiscal note would allow them to expand their project
and enter further communities - into the Aleutians up north, if
need be - and throughout Southeast Alaska to make a more
statewide presence.
Finally, Mr. Kadinger said they could expand the marketing of
sea otter products. From an economist's standpoint, rather than
pushing supply, they would pull it through larger demand; more
people interested in purchasing sea otter products would lead to
more sustainably harvested sea otters.
3:44:38 PM
SENATOR DYSON asked if there are areas in Southeast that they
don't utilize for harvesting 250 otters.
MS. WORL said the Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G)
identified Petersburg, Kake, and Yakutat as areas they thought
would be helpful to fishermen and other people, but they have
concentrated primarily in Yakutat. Harvesting is not allowed in
Glacier Bay, so that population is growing. It's also a matter
of recruiting hunters and they had not been as successful in
Kake where they would like to have a little more harvest as well
as in the Prince of Wales (POW) area.
SENATOR DYSON asked if they object to bounty hunters doing what
SHI is not able to do in areas where folks are not hunting at
all.
MS. WORL responded that they don't support bounty hunting.
According to their historical values and federal law, there has
to be some use of the animal.
SENATOR DYSON related that beaver are a problem in his area and
ADF&G would let people trap there, but the hides are not worth
enough to make it economic. So, people contribute a "bounty" to
incentivize trappers to get rid of the nuisance. Is she not open
to that type of management?
MS. WORLAND replied saying that she would have to go back to the
development of a market. A market can be created; they have
tested it successfully in Santa Fe, which is the largest Indian
market.
3:48:00 PM
SENATOR FRENCH said this issue is covered by federal law and
they struggle with how to increase the number of sea otters that
can be legally taken by Natives for subsistence purposes. What
is holding Native individuals back from taking more sea otters?
MS. WORL replied a couple of things; it is costly to go out and
hunt for one. They have introduced in federal legislation a
subsistence support production program that would help hunters
for food some security to offset the price of their oil. Her
program offers a potential solution if they can accept that the
scientific numbers will allow them to harvest an additional
1,300 sea otter. Those areas of abundance could be targeted.
3:49:24 PM
GREG BROWN, representing himself, Juneau, Alaska, said the
future of the shellfish industry doesn't look good and it has
nothing to do with sea otters; it has to do with ocean
acidification and the ability to calcify their shells. This is
not the first issue that has ever come up with sea otters around
the world. In fact there are dozens. For instance, Southern
California had all the same issues we have and they decided to
embrace the sea otters as opposed to harvesting them. They were
able to grow it to a $150 million business. The City of Santa
Barbara alone employs over 388 people in the sea otter viewing
business. Their financial report said for every dollar they lost
in the shellfish industry they made two dollars back in the
viewing industry. Today, viewing is a $50 billion industry in
the U.S. and its growing by 6 percent a year and looking back,
it's totally recession proof, too.
MR. BROWN proposed that they should put a bill together to
either buy out the shell fishermen or help them transition to a
maritime industry with a growth future. A computer analysis of
the industry showed that it would be flat at best in 24 years.
Whereas wildlife viewing in Alaska is a $600 million industry
today and it will be well over $2 billion in 24 years.
3:51:34 PM
Further he said, if SB 60 passes, they would just be back here
in a few years saying there's not enough shellfish and that the
bounty should be raised to $500. Rewriting the bill to be
constructive would give a lot of nice people in the shellfish
industry a job in a growth maritime industry.
SENATOR FRENCH asked him to talk a little bit about his
background on the economic advantages of wildlife viewing versus
harvesting.
MR. BROWN said for most of his career he ran billion dollar
corporations; he was president and CEO of Siemens and Schneider
in Latin American and Canada (largest electrical business in the
world). He retired a few years ago and moved to beautiful
Juneau, Alaska, and runs a business called "Weather Permitting
Alaska," an environmental investment business that invests in
alternative energy and other things. He is actively in a whale
watching business and that is one of the most incredible
businesses he has ever seen. They have 80 percent ROI and the
growth is incredible; they are booked all the time. Wildlife
viewing is one of the best growing businesses in the world.
SENATOR DYSON asked if that $600 million in the viewing industry
was from cruise ships.
MR. BROWN replied that figure included everything: Denali is
about $200 million; Southeast is about $300 million, and about
$100 million in the Kenai.
SENATOR DYSON asked if the implication was that our commercial
fishermen here could all transfer to another job and learn to
take out tourists.
MR. BROWN replied only the shell fishermen, not the commercial
finfish industry.
3:54:29 PM
JERRY MCCUNE, lobbyist, Cordova District Fishermen United,
Cordova, Alaska, said it was good to have this issue on the
table even though a bounty in addition to being illegal isn't
necessarily the way to go. Sea otters had rebounded "big time"
in Prince William Sound after the oil spill. His problem is with
the federal agency that he has been asking for a population
assessment from for years. If the sea otter population gets down
to where it should be, then you get into the Marine Mammal
Protection Act and all kinds of trouble. That happened in the
Aleutians.
MR. MCCUNE said he wasn't blaming all the problems on sea
otters; there were earthquakes, ocean warming and other things.
He hadn't had a dungeness fishery for a long time, but he could
tell them that the little crabs go into the shallow water and
get eaten fast; the shells on the islands are half a foot deep
from sea otters. Sea otters need a lot of food to survive and
once they eat themselves out of an area, they move on, and they
are moving down toward Yakutat now.
He said sea Otters are at an all-time high in Prince William
Sound and he was not advocating killing them off, but he wanted
to push the federal agencies to do a better job of managing them
not just protecting.
He also took exception with the shellfish industry that is still
viable in Southeast because it had already crashed in Yakutat.
The Bering Sea is still thriving, because it's very deep, so sea
otters have a hard time getting down that far. Basically he
thought there is room for both and this conversation is very
useful.
3:58:19 PM
TINA BROWN, representing herself, Juneau, Alaska, opposed SB 60.
She said sea otters are a key-stone species that are necessary
for a healthy near-shoreline ecosystem for some sea mammals,
birds and finfish including salmon and herring. Because of the
near extermination of sea otters during the Russian trade, no
one alive today has seen a healthy Southeast Alaska near-shore
ecosystem (confirmed by all sea otter biologists).
When sea otters are present sea urchins are kept in check and
kelps flourish providing habitat for fishes, marine birds,
mammals; the finfish industry can actually benefit from the
presence of sea otters. They also reduce greenhouse gases, which
benefits everyone.
She explained that sea otters have a narrow limited home range
and unsupervised take like this bounty proposes could cause
unsustainability. Whether the Southeast population is at optimum
sustainable population is not known and may even be a candidate
for the MMPA right now.
MS. BROWN said that ADF&G is doing sea otter studies and had a
sea otter symposium last February 21. Sea otter numbers in the
Aleutians are low and it's irresponsible to encourage take in
those areas. SB 60 disregards the large and growing tourism
industry; sea otter viewing is popular and lucrative. Allen
Marine in Sitka started out with sea otter viewing.
MS. BROWN said this bill is getting negative attention
nationally already; it seems to support circumventing the MMPA
for predator control and Alaska already has a tarnished image.
4:00:55 PM
KATHY HANSON, Executive Director, Southeast Alaska Fishermen's
Alliance (SEAFA), Juneau, Alaska, supported SB 60. This
legislation is a possible way to help manage the ecosystem and
maintain a sustainable shellfish industry and sea otters in
Southeast Alaska, she said. If sea otters continue to grow the
way they normally do, they will expand into other areas quickly
and then starve themselves out. At the point your shellfish
resources in the area have been killed off.
When she started SEAFA 10 years ago, she talked to the Fish and
Wildlife Service who basically said sea otters would grow, die
off, and the population would stabilize. She asked about the
shellfish resources and was told they would need to be listed on
the Endangered Species Act. That is what commercial fishermen
are concerned about; they don't want to totally do away with
every single sea otter, but they want to find a nice level where
everyone who likes to eat shellfish can do that as well as view
sea otters.
SENATOR BISHOP suggested going through Russian/American Company
shipping logs for information on sea otter pelts to establish a
baseline.
MS. HANSON said she knew of one Fish and Wildlife biologist who
was looking for funding to do that.
4:04:09 PM
MAX WORHATCH, representing himself, Petersburg, Alaska,
supported SB 60. He said he has been a dungeness fisherman for
over 20 years and had seen firsthand what otter predation can do
to productive crab grounds. The economic loss is very apparent
already and this is a positive way the state can address the
impact of otter predation on valuable state resources.
CHAIR GIESSEL found no further testifiers and closed public
testimony.
4:05:20 PM
SENATOR STEDMAN said he represented District Q, which is mainly
coastal Southeast, and he recognized there are some legal issues
to work on and hoped they could be addressed in the Judiciary
Committee. He also recognized that this issue is in the early
stages of discussion and he looked forward to any
recommendations that the committee wants to put forward. It's
timely that the State of Alaska stands up for the people in the
state; it's getting to the point where a lot of residents in the
outlying communities are suffering. There is interest from the
Sealaska Heritage Foundation in creating sea otter products, but
they are having problems doing that as evidenced by the
"significantly altered" hat that didn't qualify - and you can't
even put a zipper in a vest!
4:06:52 PM
SENATOR MICCICHE thanked the sponsor for opening this discussion
that is social, nutritional and cultural as well as economic.
Speaking for South Central Alaska, he said that mollusks and
crustaceans have literally disappeared where they were counted
on by families 30 years ago. He appreciated Senator Stedman
bringing it up as a great way to get some attention and start a
discussion about a plan forward for Alaskans. He had a problem
with how quickly people are ready to write off generations of
commercial fisheries where people have been involved for
generations.
SENATOR DYSON said he wanted to be identified with those
previous remarks. Maybe they should think about ranking
different industries and ways of making a living. For him
providing good food and using the animal for an industry
outranks providing good entertainment. He also agreed that the
legality of SB 60 should be discussed in the Judiciary
Committee.
SENATOR STEDMAN said he took that advice seriously; "bounty"
connotes wild and crazy people shooting up things and that is
not what they want to talk about.
4:09:55 PM
SENATOR FRENCH said he appreciated Senator Stedman's remarks,
but he still thought there was a way to work within the
committee to help with things like the fuel costs so more sea
otters could be harvested legally.
4:10:31 PM
SENATOR DYSON moved to report SB 60 from committee to the next
committee of referral with attached fiscal note and individual
recommendations.
CHAIR GIESSEL announced that, without objection, SB 60 passed
from the Senate Resources Standing Committee.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| SB 59 vs A.pdf |
SRES 3/15/2013 3:30:00 PM |
SB 59 |
| SB 59 Transmittal Letter.pdf |
SRES 3/15/2013 3:30:00 PM |
SB 59 |
| SB 59 Briefing Paper.pdf |
SRES 3/15/2013 3:30:00 PM |
SB 59 |
| SB 59 Sectional Analysis.pdf |
SRES 3/15/2013 3:30:00 PM |
SB 59 |
| SB 59 Fiscal Note DNR-DOG 2013.01.14.pdf |
SRES 3/15/2013 3:30:00 PM |
SB 59 |
| SB59 SRES DNR Presentation 2013.03.15.pdf |
SRES 3/15/2013 3:30:00 PM |
SB 59 |
| SB 69 Supp Letter.pdf |
SRES 3/15/2013 3:30:00 PM |
SB 69 |
| SB 59 Supp Letter Linc CorriFeige 2013.03.04.pdf |
SRES 3/15/2013 3:30:00 PM |
SB 59 |
| SB 59 Supp Letter NSB CharlotteBrower 2013.03.15.pdf |
SRES 3/15/2013 3:30:00 PM |
SB 59 |
| SB 59 Supp Letter BRPC BartArmfield 2013.03.01.PDF |
SRES 3/15/2013 3:30:00 PM |
SB 59 |
| SB 69 Supp Written Testimony KatieWilliams BSFA.pdf |
SRES 3/15/2013 3:30:00 PM |
SB 69 |
| SB 69 NFHAP Funding Allocation - approved by the NFHB - Oct 2011.pdf |
SRES 3/15/2013 3:30:00 PM |
SB 69 |
| SB 60 Opp Letter TinaBrown 2013.03.13.pdf |
SJUD 4/5/2013 1:30:00 PM SRES 3/15/2013 3:30:00 PM |
SB 60 |
| SB 60 Supp Written Testimony SARDFA 2013.03.13.pdf |
SJUD 4/5/2013 1:30:00 PM SRES 3/15/2013 3:30:00 PM |
SB 60 |
| SB 60 Supp Letter JulieDecker 2013.03.13.pdf |
SJUD 4/5/2013 1:30:00 PM SRES 3/15/2013 3:30:00 PM |
SB 60 |
| SB 60 USFWS 1994 Conservation Plan.pdf |
SJUD 4/5/2013 1:30:00 PM SRES 3/15/2013 3:30:00 PM |
SB 60 |
| SB 60 Legal Opinion.pdf |
SJUD 4/5/2013 1:30:00 PM SRES 3/15/2013 3:30:00 PM |
SB 60 |
| SB 60 Supp Letter SE Conference.pdf |
SJUD 4/5/2013 1:30:00 PM SRES 3/15/2013 3:30:00 PM |
SB 60 |
| SB 60 UCSC Study distributed by AWA.pdf |
SJUD 4/5/2013 1:30:00 PM SRES 3/15/2013 3:30:00 PM |
SB 60 |
| SB 60 National Marine Sanctuaries Kelp Forests distributed by AWA.pdf |
SJUD 4/5/2013 1:30:00 PM SRES 3/15/2013 3:30:00 PM |
SB 60 |
| SB 60 Supp Letter UFA 2013.03.15.pdf |
SJUD 4/5/2013 1:30:00 PM SRES 3/15/2013 3:30:00 PM |
SB 60 |
| SB 60 Written Testimony SEAFA 2013.03.12.pdf |
SJUD 4/5/2013 1:30:00 PM SRES 3/15/2013 3:30:00 PM |
SB 60 |
| SB 60 Opp Letter PatriciaOBrien 2013.03.15.pdf |
SJUD 4/5/2013 1:30:00 PM SRES 3/15/2013 3:30:00 PM |
SB 60 |
| HJR 5 Supp Letter 19 SEAGO.pdf |
SRES 3/15/2013 3:30:00 PM |
HJR 5 |
| HJR 5 Presentation Rep. Tarr.pdf |
SRES 3/15/2013 3:30:00 PM |
HJR 5 |